just found this

topic posted Sun, October 9, 2005 - 1:52 AM by  Unsubscribed
i was going to make a tribe for this but i found this one.


one of the things that changed my perspective on "drunks" which how i refered to my mother as. i went to a AA meeting with a friend. and to hear these people bitch and moan on why they drink.......all my anger dissolved and my mother became this weak child in my eyes. i only wish i had done that AA meeting thing a lot sooner. maybe then i wouldnt have the brainwashed negative mindset and all the typical aspects of a child of an alcoholic. they are tremendous stones in the road of personal development.

if you want to know what my mother was like watch "mommy dearest" no exaggeration. it totally freaks out anyone that knows my mom and knew how she acted when she was drunk.
its just really creepy too because she looks like joan crawford a bit too.

the creepiest part was when she (in the movie) was freaking out about the bathroom not being clean. the face she was making.....its makes me so uncomfortable.

i remeber seeing my own mother inches from my face....drunken sweat melting her make-up...i could hear spit clicking in her mouth as she degraded me through her teeth and wrapped her hand around my throat bouncing my head off the wall........thats something i will never forget.

i confronted her on all that and more and she acts like it never happened. which people have black outs....but i can tell by her expression that she is lying.
i havent confronted her about it for awhile.
maybe after i am 30..........
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    Re: just found this

    Sun, October 9, 2005 - 7:52 AM
    Thanx for sharing that Violet. It sounds like you are trying to get a grip on your past. I myself am a recovering alcoholic that had alcoholic parents. My father died from it but I still deal with my mother. Alcoholics who don't get help or don't really work the program but are, what we call *dry alcoholics*, will stay in denial for as long as it makes them feel better and not have to take responsibility for their actions. They are children in a sense. Somewhere in life they stopped growing up. I know this first hand cause as a recovering alcoholic in the program I have grown up quite a bit. Luckily in time so my children wouldn't suffer. They are still very young. Nonetheless I know it doesn't lessen your pain from your memories. My boyfriend struggles with similar issues from his past. He wants an apology but I think even he knows that it probably won't make things much better. It's really up to us as individuals to make the choice to let it go and know that we don't have to live that way anymore nor treat our own children that way. I hope your past experience makes you a stronger and wiser person. Your pain can teach you a lot about living a happier life from now on. Pray for your mother however makes you comfortable. It will eventually release you from the burden you've carried for so long. Remember, she is sick. It really is a disease as I'm sure you learned from going to AA. Alcoholism is a disease of the emotions. We don't understand them completely as healthy people nonetheless when our emotions are sick.

    Good luck and keep sharing and healing.

    Kim~
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      Re: just found this

      Sun, October 9, 2005 - 8:07 AM
      i wish she was a hippie stoner instead.
      she just had a hip replacement and my mom is pretty cool when shes messed up on pain meds. hee hee

      the wierd thing about the past affecting now:
      i know what happened..i know it wasnt my fault but just a crazy ass mess....BUT i keep doing all those things that reflect the abused mindset that are a reaction to whatever issue,problem,decision,person i am having to handle at that moment.

      i guess you could say i am an emotional decision maker.
      another thing i cant seem to get over...i will get positive about something i want to do with my life....and then i run it by my parents thinking it will make them happy or whatever...and they piss all over it...i become depressed lose interest in what i was doing or interested in and give up. and then i do nothing. and i just end up more and more confused. and even if still want to do whatever i planned on...i have this nagging thing going on in the back of my head that says,"thats not good enough" or "thats a waste of time and stupid" etc....
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: just found this

        Sun, October 9, 2005 - 8:24 AM
        You sound just like me!! To this day for some reason I seek my mother's approval for the good things in my life. And you know what? She'll never approve because she's miserable and wants to justify that life is messy by making my life look miserable. I've worked really hard to get where I am in my sobriety!! My children love being around me again, I have great friends in and out of the program, I have a great boyfriend that supports me in everything I do, etc...I could keep going. I even started writing agian after 10 years. I never told my mother cause she would squash it and the feedback from strangers has affirmed that I'm good at what I write. So her opinion doesn't even matter to me. I want to be a positive role model for my children so I'm determined to teach and SHOW them that I am strong and they can be too. It's hard but remember when they squash your achievements, it's not about you. They can't be happy for you because they know they had nothing to do with it and they can't do it themselves. Misery loves company after all so that's all they know how to do is to invite you to their pity parties.

        So I recommened the next time you get excited about a project, go out and do it and when you succeed, relish in it without ever telling your parents. Tell your friends and bask in the glow of praise from strangers. They are the ones who see you for your true talents.

        Kim~
  • Re: just found this

    Mon, October 10, 2005 - 1:45 AM
    Hi Violet
    Thanks for joining.
    Sounds like my Dad is alot like you mother--the male version of Mommy Dearest. He completely denies it all and lays tons of guilt trips on me about how he had financally supported me.
    My dad went through a stint of sobriety when I was living with him, but his horrible negative behavior never went away. Hes back to drinking again, which of course doesnt help things between him and me. I say things to him about how he drinks too much...all he had to say about that is "Yea right" or "it never bothered your brother".
    Whats the point anymore? I just dont talk to him. I have so much better things to do with my youth.
    I hate him.
    • Re: just found this

      Mon, October 10, 2005 - 1:47 AM
      I especially hate him for comparing me to my brother like that.
      • Re: just found this

        Mon, October 10, 2005 - 2:50 PM
        My biggest problem is that I feel sorry for my dad. He really has had some hard times in life. But he never does anything to try to help himslef he just keeps drinking more and more and apparently thinks that if he drinks enough, the problems will just go away.
        My dad also does not believe he has a drinking problem. His best buddies are alcoholics in denial too.
        You know how I got away from it? I moved away. It was hard, but I've lived three hours from my parents for 12 years, and its the best thing I ever did. My sister moved away from them too, and my youngest brother is planning too as soon as he can find a job somewhere else. The alcoholic brother however, is happy as a clam living near dad, so they can go out and drink together. Its sad...
        But I know what you mean about them never being happy with anything you do or say. From the moment I was born I was not good enough because I was supposed to have been a boy. My dad wanted a son, and since I was, and still am, a tomboy, it just made things worse. He was always trying to show me why I wasn't as good as a boy. But I proved him wrong time and time again. When he finally got his first son, the boy had birth defects, and again, he laid on the crap about how it wasn't fair his son had them. "Why couldn't it have been one of the girls?"
        I will never forget him saying that in his drunken stupor.
        Sorry, I'll quit rambling...
        welcome to the club, by the way!!
        • Re: just found this

          Mon, October 10, 2005 - 7:22 PM
          Yeah I also always felt that my brother was more valued than I was.
          In search for approval, I took on tomboy qualities.

          To make it worse my brother was always putting me down and hitting me and stuff, so I always felt like the odd one out in the family...like what I said or did didnt matter.
          • Re: just found this

            Tue, October 11, 2005 - 2:35 AM
            My mom was my hero and protector in that aspect. She was always rooting me one, telling me how great I was. When my sister was born, she had her two little girls and that's all she wanted. My sister is very girly, I'm not. I was my maternal grandfather's shadow, and I'm so happy to have had him as a good role model in my life.
            I'm the oldest in my family, and my brothers were 10 and 8 when I moved away to college, so I never had to worry about those things.
  • Re: just found this

    Sat, October 15, 2005 - 11:50 AM
    Geeee Wendy & Violet, how could I have missed this Tribe?
    Fancy meeting y'all here ;}.
    Since both my parents were commited alcoholics, & I have avoided this concept from it's inception 2+ decades ago,
    I think I'll read some threads.....
    I'm glad it's here with some friends to induct me......
    • Re: just found this

      Sat, October 15, 2005 - 6:46 PM
      Welcome GIGI!
      =0)
      • Re: just found this

        Tue, October 18, 2005 - 8:56 AM
        oh lord-
        i have put off joining this tribe since wendy started it- but here i am.
        my dad died this year of alcohol related illnesses. it was the hardest thing for me to dispel the hate- but i had to- it harms you if you hold hatred- not them. i was lucky to be abandoned by him in a sense, i didn't have to deal with him very much after a certain age that i can't quite remember (i was menatly abused by others, as well as myself, so my childhood is one big blur)
        • Re: just found this

          Tue, October 18, 2005 - 6:48 PM
          Hi Faern. Thanks for joining.

          Sorry about your father. Sometimes I wonder how long my dads gonna be around--being a long time drinker and (cigarrette)smoker. He is an alcoholic even though he completely denies it. He had a stint of sobriety during which he continued to be mentally abusive and manipualtive.

          I tried to tell him how much he hurt me and all he could talk about was how much this was hurting him. I made an analogy--it's like running someone over with your car and then getting mad if they step on your foot. He of course didnt agree with this analogy.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: just found this

            Tue, October 18, 2005 - 7:31 PM
            My father died in 2002 from bladder cancer. He was a drinker and a heavy smoker. He was only 58. I was too afraid to ever tell him how I felt about that. Mostly because I could tell that he wasn't a happy man and I didn't want to add to his misery. When he was dying I could see it in his eyes that he sad that things hadn't been better.

            Despite the fact that my dad was a mean drunk, I'm sad that he won't be around to walk me down the aisle whenever I get married. And I won't get that dance with him.
            • Re: just found this

              Sat, January 14, 2006 - 10:05 AM
              My Dad was only 56 when he died! Can you imagine?
              But my mother as far as I know is still alive; I think she's pickled -mummified from all the alcohol & ciggarettes (Cools my god!) & her own stubborn meanness<<>>

              I last saw my father the day the men walked on the moon for a brief time at my 1/2 sisters. He had a stroke that day but I was never told when I asked about him via my mother. She said he had moved to Hawaii but I found out almost 30 years later he had returned to the dinky Texas town of his youth & married his childhood sweetheart! that his mother had 'forbidden' him to marry. She died within 6 months & I guess he could not take anymore hurt so died too.

              In the last few years I refound fmaily from my childhood including my 101yo Uncle that was with my Father the day he met my mother in a bar. He said my Father didn't really drink then, & he only drank beer in the years I knew him, but that my mother was already a hardcore drinker. She was in Kansas with all the gangsters + the War years as an excuse.
              Now I am 58 & have been haveing serious health problems for 2 years. Besides my own destructive behavior in my 20s due to being taught by my mother that Partying was adulthood I have had to start looking at the fact that I was probably carried in vitro by a drunken slut!! She evidently had to be tracked down by my Father & dragged home to his mothers from New Orleans when he found out she was pregnant (he was a Marine -pacific Adjuntant so he was always traveling through out the Pacific War arena).

              The only picture I have of them is their 'wedding pic' in a bar with ciggarettes lit. I stare at that picture & you can see that my mother has some extreme hurt already in her young eyes but that my father is excited about life. & I have 1pic of her & me when I was 9months. I stare & stare at that child that was So happy being alive so joyous & ache at the injuries that have happened to emotionally destroy that Joy.

              I know that my mother received emotional injury to herself as a young woman, & I used to feel a lot more empathy for her. Also the years of being a 'divorcee' in the 50s with children was not kind. But damn it all There were Too many Abuses to even record that happened to her but to me as a child that had not a chance to know why. I really believed until I was 35 that all men beat all women in the home. My life had been that stepfather beats mom unconcious & takes refuge in molesting me. Then it was a series of 'boyfriends' that it would end up in someone being attacked in their drunkeness......

              One of my mother's boyfriends offered to pay for me to go to Beauty College (so I could earn a living) & I thought she was 'selling' me to him!! True. I ran away form the town thinking I was being sold into white slavery....

              Well I'll end this confession with what amazes me about normal people when they hear I have Not spoken to my mother in over 30 years; "You have to go see her- she's your mother!" WTF? No I don't have to see her. & what am I going to do go acost some old lady that has never told the truth, never known a truth bcz of her alcoholism, to give me answers to why she so misled me that my life had been a mess & cleaning up the messes!?!?!?!

              Lately I constantly hear in my background noise the voice of this Psychiatrist that interviewed me for a Work Comp case years ago: He had started tearing while I had answered his questions & I asked him what was wrong. He said "It's my job to evaluate people & I can do so very quickly & it makes me cry to think that with yr intelligence you could have been Anything you wanted to be IF you had had decent parents!"

              MY god; you mean I could have been a Veternarian (don't do that there's blood), a Lawyer (well you do like to talk(), a Biochemist (oh don't be silly), a great Hollywood Costumer (Oh Edith Head is the only one so you will never break in the buisness). My mothers advice was "Be a waitress; that way You will always be able to eat at least cz no one is ever going to want to marry you to save yr ass".

              So can a chronically ill, health impaired (lungs probably from all that kool smoke), demoralized, nervous 58 year old woman pick herself up off the bottom floor & try again??????
          • Re: just found this

            Sat, October 22, 2005 - 11:22 AM
            my dad didn't come back to sort of humanity until alcoholism threw him his second stroke (after a couple heart attacks), he was put in an old age home by my evil step mother (her i have very strong negative feelings towards), she held his hand to sign divorce papers which included leaving him with nothing- literally. she really made him suffer, tried to 'pay back all those horrible years' and so on.
            paralized, and even then i wouldn't speak to him until one day i wrote him a letter telling him that we wouldn't speak and if he wanted to be in touch he would have to write me a letter (this seemed fair to me even though he was only able to use one arm- i used to write him letters as a child which he never replied to- so this was a little test i guess) so he did, and i wrote back, and we went on this way for a few years until we spoke one day. we had very short conversations every once in a while, the whole time begging me to come see him (he was living in seattle by now, getting somewhat taken care of by the church) i refused and told him i wasn't ready yet (at this point i hadn't seen him in 13 years or so)
            i told him that his actions had been horrible and inexcusable
            he broke a little girl's heart over and over again
            but at this point, in his state, i couldn't hold it against him anymore and we could start from now on-
            this was hard for me, of course
            the older children didn't take that chance-
            and the youngest two weren't allowed to by the step bitch...
            but, i didn't see him until right before he died- amongst huge drama... but some of you already know a lot of this from my blogger, sorry if i am being too repetitive
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: just found this

              Sat, October 22, 2005 - 11:40 AM
              I kind of know how you feel. After my parents divorced, my dad dated women who took advantage of him all the time. It made me feel like I was the parent and he the kid. He'd call me up crying when a woman had hurt him.
  • Re: just found this

    Mon, January 23, 2006 - 10:54 PM
    My Fathers denial is whats keeps me from speaking to him anymore. --Which sounds like a bad thing, but I kind of have to exclude him from my life to keep my own emotional health. He creates and wants drama and pity and for the world to revolve around him. His weapon is guilt. If I let him, he could drain all my energy and take my focus off of positive moves forward in my life.
    • Re: just found this

      Tue, January 24, 2006 - 10:39 AM
      If I haven't already mentioned it Wendy, my mothers behaviors, denial of herself as the problem & her intent as an alcoholic mother led me to stop speaking to her & hence also my siblings over 30 years ago. I was really trying to form a good forward moving life for myself that I could feel some pride & happiness in & it was very apparent that she would & possibly could Sabotage my efforts at any point she was allowed into. It was a difficult decision, I have not become the dream success I fantasized but it has been My Life, not hers.

      I have 'missed' her the last few years again bcz I know that she is a very old lady in her last years (if still alive) but I also resent that through her cosen focus of heavy drinking & partying, Vodka & Kools uber all, she not only robbed me of my mother as a child, but my mother in the middle friendly years that might have been & now almost worst getting to be with & care for my elderly mother. Will I go to see her for closure? No. Bcz I cannot have closure for my sores without asking questions & she would not be anymore able to know a truth other than her addiction than she ever did. & I am not going to injure an old woman with my questions {{{{

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